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Several readers have asked what the differences are among the Kenyon saw that showed up at Woodworking in America, the Gramercy dovetail saw and the Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw. In what I promise is my last post about saws this week, here are some observations.

1. Weight. The Kenyon saw (the bottom saw in the photo) weighs 7.8 ounces. The Gramercy (the top saw in the photo) weighs 6.2 oz. The Lie-Nielsen comes in at 11 oz. Can you feel the difference? You bet. Does it matter? That's your call. I can cut good joints with a lightweight saw and a heavy one. And so can you.

2. Handle. This difference is important to me. All three saw handles are about the same thickness (Gramercy: .88". Kenyon: .86". Lie-Nielsen: .89"). But they definitely feel different. To my hand, the Gramercy feels the smallest and has the most open space. It is .9" at its narrowest point on the handle. The Kenyon saw fits my hand extraordinarily well, like a driving glove. It is 1.13" at its narrowest point. The Lie-Nielsen is between the two. It's not as open as the Gramercy, but it is a tad more open than the Kenyon. It is 1.23" at its narrowest point.

3. The brass back. The Gramercy's is the smallest at ½" wide. The Kenyon is a bit wider at 5/8". The Lie-Nielsen is widest at ¾". The back adds weight, so these statistics should come as no surprise.

4. Blade thickness. The Gramercy is .018". The Kenyon is .017". The Lie-Nielsen is .02". These are all workable thicknesses for a dovetail saw.

5. Point per inch. The Gramercy is 18 ppi. The Kenyon is 20 or 21 ppi (the teeth are fairly boogered up). The stock Lie-Nielsen is 15 ppi. In my book, that means the Gramercy and Kenyon saws are tuned for thinner stock, such as drawers. The Lie-Nielsen is tuned more for carcase work. But you can use either kind of saw for either operation.

What does all this mean? The Kenyon saw is a little different than these two other commercial saws. And so when Mike Wenzloff starts making them, it will be another good choice for your short list.

— Christopher Schwarz

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Good news for those of you who went wild with lust over liked the early Kenyon dovetail saw featured earlier this week. Saw maker Mike Wenzloff says he will manufacture very close copies of this valuable and rare saw for sale during the next few weeks.

The saw surfaced at our Woodworking in America conference in Berea, Ky., when an attendee brought it in and asked Wenzloff if he could sharpen it or replace the blade. People went nuts.

Tool historians in the crowd estimated the saw, which the attendee purchased for $35, was circa 1770. Saws from the 18th century are rare. And dovetail saws from this period are even less common. So Wenzloff took a bunch of measurements off the saw and is about to start making the tool at the same time he makes a batch of sash and tenons saws from the same era.

The dovetail saw will be available directly from Wenzloff & Sons for $140. You can order one by e-mailing Wenzloff directly.

Wenzloff says he's going to make his saw as close as possible to the original. I measured the thickness of the sawplate of the original at .017" thick; Wenzloff's will be .018" thick. The brass back will be essentially the same thickness. Wenzloff said he's going to alter the usable depth at the toe a bit because the blade in the original had shifted a bit. The saw will be 20 ppi, which is just about the pitch of the original (which was hard to measure).

The saw is even going to be stamped like the original with "Kenyon," "Spring" and London" stamped into the spine. On the original saw, the word "Kenyon" is upside down.

"(I) wonder how many I will produce with an upside down portion," Wenzloff wrote in an e-mail.

I hope he'll stamp all of them wrong. It seems the right thing to do.

— Christopher Schwarz

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During the Woodworking in America conference, I moderated a discussion on saws between toolmakers Mike Wenzloff, from Wenzloff & Sons, and Joel Moskowitz, from Tools for Working Wood.

Both men are knowledgeable and have firm opinions about the topic of saws. The discussion was spirited and at some points contentious, though no blood was drawn. It took a long time for the three of us to navigate the technical details of the shape of sawteeth, and so we didn't get to spend much time discussing what saws you need to build furniture. Several attendees approached me after the session for guidance, and so I decided to share it with everyone here on the blog.

Earlier this year I wrote an entry that explains my personal set of saws (check it out here) and their configurations. This is a good place to start.

Number of Teeth
In general, when I choose a saw I try to match the number of teeth on the saw (called the pitch) to the thickness of my work. With backless saws, such as handsaws and rip saws, I aim to keep six or seven teeth buried in the wood at all times. With backsaws (such as dovetail and carcase saws) I aim to keep 10 teeth buried in the wood at all times.

Here's an example of how this works. If I have a 3/4"-thick carcase to dovetail, I'm going to pick a 15-points-per-inch (ppi) saw. But if I am dovetailing a 1/2"-thick drawer side, I'm going to reach for something finer, such as an 18-point or 20-point saw.

Either saw will work for carcasses or drawers, it's more a matter of what will work better. You don't have to own two dovetail saws. Just pick the one that suits the style of work you do. (Note that these rules don't apply to Japanese saws because they have deeper gullets that don't fill with sawdust.)

And note that there are practical limits. Few tenon saws come coarser than 10 ppi, but sometimes you have to saw a 2"-wide tenon cheek. A 5-point tenon saw would be a bear to start. So be flexible.

Kinds of Saws and What Order to Buy Them In
If you build typical furniture – cabinets, chairs, tables and chests – the following list of saws is meaningful. If you build smaller stuff (jewelry boxes) or bigger stuff (huge armoires), you are going to have to adjust. But I think this is a good list.

Carcase Saw
Typical blade length: 10" to 14"
Points: 12 to 14 ppi
Type of filing: Crosscut
I think this is a great saw to purchase first. It is easy to start and control, and it is useful for all sorts of crosscuts with a bench hook. Practicing with this saw will prepare you for the more challenging backsaws. What length should you choose? As with all saws, I think longer saws make straighter cuts, but they can be harder for beginners to control. My favorite is 14" long. I'm not worked up about the ppi. I see little difference between 12 ppi and 14 ppi.

Dovetail Saw
Length: 6" to 10"
Points: 14 ppi to 21 ppi
Type of filing: Rip
No matter what I write you'll buy a dovetail saw as soon as possible. We all want to cut dovetails. So go ahead. The smaller dovetail saws generally have finer teeth so the length isn't as issue as much as the ppi. Choose a ppi that matches what you like to do. Do you build lots of drawers? Get a finer saw (18 to 20 ppi). Like blanket chests? Get something in the 15 ppi neighborhood. What about the "progressive-pitch" saws, where the teeth are finer at the toe and coarser at the heel? I like them, but it took me a bit of time to acquire a taste for them. If you can try one before you buy it, that's ideal.

Tenon Saw
Length: 16" to 20"
Points: 10 ppi to 11 ppi
Type of filing: Rip
I'm using the specifications for an old-style tenon saw. Usually they don't come this big anymore, except for one made by Wenzloff & Sons. I like a big tenon saw (19"), but I seem to like bigger saws in general. When I teach sawing, my students are split: Half like the bigger saw for cutting tenon cheeks; the other half like a smaller sash saw instead.

Sash Saw (aka a Modern Tenon Saw)
Length: 14" to 16"
Points: 10 ppi is typical
Type of filing: Rip or Crosscut is available
The name "sash saw" has disappeared from most catalogs, but the form lives on as a "tenon saw" or a "crosscut tenon saw." I like a rip-filed tenon/sash saw because cutting the cheeks is a rip operation. Some people choose a crosscut sash saw in place of a crosscut carcase saw because they like big saws or have larger-scale work to do. As you can see, this is where it gets complex. You don't need both a rip tenon saw and a rip sash saw (though you are free to get both). Choose one that suits you. I like a 14" sash saw no matter what the filing. Go figure.

Handsaw
Length: 22" to 26"
Points: 5 ppi to 12 ppi
Type of filing: Crosscut
These backless saws are used to break down rough stock before you process it and to cut larger components to size before you shoot them to their final lengths. I like a 7 ppi saw (they're as common as dirt). Choose a shorter saw if it matches your stature or if you work on top of a workbench. Choose a longer saw if you are taller (I like 26") or if you work on a sawbench (an 18"-high platform designed for sawing). I think these saws are great because they give you lots of sawing practice, which pays off big when you cut dovetails. Usually the saws shorter than 26" are called panel saws.

Ripsaw
Length: 22" to 26"
Points: 3-1/2" ppi to 5 ppi
Type of filing: Rip
I don't use a ripsaw all that much (see the dust on the sawplate?). Honestly, I prefer a powered band saw. Long rip cuts are a lot like work. I'd get a ripsaw only if you are deep into the purity of hand work or you have kids sleeping upstairs.

I hope this has helped some of you at the conference. If you didn't like the session, I apologize. We'll do better next time.

— Christopher Schwarz

As the Woodworking in America conference wound down on Sunday, I dashed out the door with Louis Bois to fetch a six pack of beer he had chilling in his rental car. As my hand touched the exit I heard a voice call my name.

I waved back to the guy. The reply was not what I expected.

“I have something that you have to see.”

I stopped for a second and then plunged into the cold with Louis, who draws the technical illustrations for Woodworking Magazine. Louis had brought me a box of lager from Canada, and after he put the beer in my hands I returned to the conference to investigate.

The guy was standing at the front desk, empty-handed.

“It’s on the copier,” he said. “Just a minute.”

What came off the copier left me speechless: An early English dovetail saw that looks much like the 18th-century dovetail saw from the famous tool chest of Benjamin Seaton.

The saw had a brass back stamped both “Kenyon Spring” and “London” – just like the Seaton saw. A close inspection revealed some differences between this saw and the one featured in “The Tool Chest of Benjamin Seaton.” The Seaton saw is listed as 9” long. This saw has a blade that is 8-3/16” long. The brass back is 7-3/4” long.

The blade is 1” wide under the toe and 1-3/8” wide where the tote begins. The saw is filed at 21 points per inch (the Seaton saw is listed as 19 points). The teeth are filed for ripping. I measured the sawplate at several places and almost every spot was at .017" thick -- very similar to the Seaton saw. That's thinner than modern dovetail saws

The handle is a little different than the Seaton saw. On the section of the tote that overlaps the blade, the wood comes to a point on the Seaton saw. On this saw that area is more rounded.

But all in all, the saws are strikingly familiar.

However, what’s more striking is the story of how the saw arrived at the conference. Its owner is an auctioneer who likes to collect vintage tools. One day he and his wife were in an antique store just browsing around when he spied this Kenyon saw.

He liked the look of it, but he didn’t like the price. The blade was warped a little at the toothline. He figured that if he could get the saw for a little less he could find someone like saw sharpening savant Tom Law to replace the rusty blade with a new one so he could use it.

He hemmed and hawed but his wife finally encouraged him to take it up to the counter to negotiate.

“I tried and tried,” he said. “But they just wouldn’t come off their price of $35.”

He bought the saw anyway and put it aside. He had no idea the saw was anything special until he brought it to the Woodworking in America conference in Berea, Ky. When he took the saw out to show it to someone, the attendees went nuts. People began photographing the thing, taking measurements, and generally just gaping at it in awe.

Sawmaker Mike Wenzloff vowed to make a copy. So they stuck the thing on a photocopier to make images of the saw’s shape. And that’s when I walked in.

After staring at the saw for a while I looked up at the auctioneer and just grinned. And that’s when he pulled out a tool that was even more rare from one of his old gym socks.

We’ll save that story for another day.

— Christopher Schwarz

P.S. You can download a full-size scan of the saw in pdf format by clicking on the link below.

Kenyon_DT.pdf (3.8 MB)

The handplaning jigs are packed and ready to load on the truck Thursday morning.

Only one more restless night in bed, and I'll be headed down to our Woodworking in America conference in Berea, Ky. The entire staff of the magazine is looking forward to the show, but we also know that we're in for a wild ride.

We've never put on a conference before, and we know expectations are high. And despite all the preparation we've done since March, we know we've made a few mistakes along the way. Thank you for all your patience.

For me, the most exciting thing about the conference is getting to meet all of the speakers and the attendees and to openly discuss a lot of thorny questions about hand work. I'm the moderator for several sessions with toolmakers, and so I've been busy scribbling questions for them. Here are just a few of them. I hope you are bringing some questions of your own.

1. Many bevel-up planes have a sliding mouth shoe to close the mouth. Why is this feature not typical on bevel-down tools?

2. Does the lack of a chipbreaker on a bevel-up plane ever hurt its performance?

3. We hear from Lee Valley customers that they want Veritas to make Bed Rock-style planes or infill planes or chisels. Are these products in the works, or what are the reasons that the Veritas line has focused more on original and new tool designs?

4. Some toolmakers use cryogenically treated irons, some don't. Does it really offer advantages or is it more marketing?

5. What you think about Stanley re-entering the marketplace for premium planes. Do you think this will bring new customers into the market? Or will it drive out some existing makers?

6. If you were designing a handplane for function alone, do you see advantages to the hollowed-out sole of a Japanese plane? Why hasn't this Japanese feature caught on with Western woodworkers (unlike Japanese chisels).

7. How flat should the frog of a handplane be? How can this be measured?

8. Does the iron have to contact the entire frog or only at the mouth?

9. How critical is it that the frog is square in the mouth of the tool? How can this be measured?

10. With bevel-up planes, how can bedding errors be detected at home?

11. Planes have gotten heavier overall in modern times. What does added weight do to a plane? What are the advantages and disadvantages of mass?

12. What is the best Rockwell hardness for a plane iron? Marketing copy seems to play up very hard irons. Aren't they more brittle?

13. Exotic steels: Have they become widespread because they are better for the user or have they become widespread because there is less manufacturing waste?

14. What do you think about diamond stones? Are they appropriate for woodworking tools? What lubricants do you recommend? Are they durable enough? Do they produce a different kind of edge – it sure looks different to my eye. Are perforated or smooth stones better? Is there much of a difference between monocrystalline and polycrystalline stones?

15. What is a "good saw?" That is, how do you define a perfect saw for an operation? Is it speed? Quality of cut? Ease of starting? Durability of teeth? How easy the saw is to use?

We hope to post a couple blog entries during the conference, but I can't make any promises. Be sure to check back next week when we'll have photos, perhaps some video and some information about our plans for next year.

— Christopher Schwarz

I swore I'd never move the Roubo workbench again. Oh well. I gotta stop swearing so much.

Find your credit card. You know the one. It's one your spouse always hides when you get caught reading my blog.

Auriou, the venerable French toolmaker that closed it doors last year after a labor dispute, re-opened for business on Friday. Thanks to new owners and the same plant manager, the new Forge de St Juery is making and selling many of the most popular and useful woodworking rasps on its web site.

The company has more than 400 rasps in stock right now, is currently taking orders and will begin shipping on Nov. 20. The company is much smaller than it was before it shuttered its doors (there is only one stitcher at the present time), so production will be on a small scale until more stitchers can be trained. That is a lengthy process.

The plant is still under the direction of Michel Auriou, a passionate and knowledgeable toolmaker, and so I have every confidence that the new tools will be as good as the old. And what great tools they are. I own four Auriou rasps (two at work; two at home), and I cannot imagine working without them. Actually, I can't remember what it was like to work without them. My old Nicholson rasps seem sorry, coarse and slow.

Of course, the logical question is which rasps you should buy. If you build typical casework and shelves, I think it's ideal to have two rasps:

A cabinet rasp (9", 10" or 12" are all good lengths) with a grain of nine or 10.

A modeller's rasp. I really like the 6" in a 15 grain. It leaves a very nice finish.

I'm also very interested in trying the ALBI rasp listed on the site.

The other good news here is that the prices are fairly in line with what the Auriou rasps sold for when the company closed last year. A 9" cabinet rasp sells for about $107 – that's much less than these suckers were going for on eBay. The shipping is expensive, however. A box containing up to five rasps is going to cost about $30.

However, all this talk about money is immaterial in my book. These are great rasps – the last ones you are ever likely to buy if you are a home woodworker.

— Christopher Schwarz

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My puny 8'-long English workbench is starting to feel like an apartment-sized dinette set. Why? Check out this 12'-long version of that same bench design that boatbuilder Bob Easton constructed using Douglas fir.

Easton's design is interesting because he incorporated a third leg into the middle section of the bench because he was concerned that the whole thing might flex under heavy planing. He built the third leg just a little short to ensure that the whole thing wouldn't become a teeter-totter.

After using the bench, Bob reports that the third leg probably isn't necessary. The bench doesn't seem to flex at all in the middle. However, it looks cool and is good insurance in case Bob ever decided to rebuild a V-8 engine on there.

The other interesting alteration from the original plan published in my "Workbenches" book is that Bob used a traditional face vise in the end vise position. I built a wagon vise there on my version of the bench. I'm Chris Schwarz and I approve of this alteration.

Using a vise like this in the end-vise position saves you lots of construction time. The wagon vise took as long for me to build as the rest of the English workbench (no lie).

Bob has been blogging about his bench and you can follow his progress using this link. Or you can skip to the final and glorious result here.

— Christopher Schwarz


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For the last few weeks I've been joking around that our woodshop has turned into a sweatshop. As of this morning, I don't think that joke is funny any more.

For the last few weeks the staff, lead by Senior Editor Robert W. Lang, has been building all the appliances and jigs that the instructors need for the hands-on clinics at our Woodworking in America conference next week. Oh, and we've also been milling the lumber that the attendees will be sawing, chopping, paring and planing.

There are bench hooks, planing boards, saw-filing vises and myriad other jiggery piled up everywhere in the shop. The jigs were built using poplar we had in the wood rack, ash left over from Lang's "21st Century Workbench" and even some cherry buried in the bottom of the rack that I'd bought to build my wall-hung tool chest.

I'm glad to see that cherry go, actually. As part of the deal I struck with the seller years ago, I bought 90 board feet of low-quality stuff to buy a load of amazingly wide, clear and beautiful black cherry.

We've enlisted everyone, from Publisher Steve Shanesy on down to Drew DePenning, our associate editor for the web, to help screw, nail and glue parts together. Thanks to all the help, I'm sure we're going to make our deadline. That is, as soon as I get my hinder away from the computer and screw together about 38 saw-filing vises.

Or maybe we're not done yet. This morning 250 board feet of poplar arrived at our loading dock. Maybe there are more jigs to build.

— Christopher Schwarz

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I've been doing this job for 12 years now; and that's the longest commitment I've given anything, except for maybe shaving, remaining married and pork barbecue. So clearly I like my job, or I'm un-hirable in any other profession.

Most days are great: I read about woodworking, write about woodworking and do woodworking. But there are a few days that make me grind my teeth in frustration. This is one of those days.

I'm editing a piece by bodger and blacksmith Don Weber for the February 2009 issue of Popular Woodworking. Don has built an interpretation of a Sidney Barnsley hay-rake table and has done a beautiful job. And that's the problem.

I've been dying to build one of these tables since before I came to work here. Barnsley has long been one of my heroes. He was a trained architect who chucked it all to design and build furniture mostly by hand. And to top it all off he had great design sensibilities.

Of course, now that Weber has built this table for the magazine, there's little chance that I'll be able to build one unless I can find a customer. Casa Schwarz doesn't need a massive dining table (already got one). Nor does anyone in my family. I could build one on spec and try to sell it, but I think I'd probably end up with the world's fanciest basement Pla-Doh table.

Maybe I could just build a small model of it…. Aw crud.

— Christopher Schwarz

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This morning I stumbled on a cool movie from 1940 that explains the types of woodworking jobs available at the time and has some really fun shots of veneering, furniture-making and patternmaking. If for some reason your browser won't display the movie, scoot on over to archive.org and you can choose from a wide variety of video formats.

My favorite part of the video is where they show the vocational students attacking some boards with tools. One of the students is planing a big old hollow in an edge. Then it shows him checking the edge to ensure it's square. Though you cannot hear the student, I'm sure he said something like, "Jeepers that edge sucks eggs."

If you have 10 minutes to spare, I think you'll enjoy this little flick.

— Christopher Schwarz

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